This special program was launched in 2010 and was originally expected to run out of money before it could cover everyone who needed it. But the opposite happened. People with pre-existing conditions either didn't know about this plan or didn't care to take part. Less than 20,000 people have signed up across the country. learn at "Penny Health" for your self

Yes...it used to be you took a public job for security. Got lower pay than in the private sector. In other words there was a trade off between risk and reward. Now you get the higher pay, great benefits and job security because of union representation. Don't believe me? Go to this site and see the compensation gap by state for public vs private workers and wonder why we're being taxed to death.

NJ is 3rd highest in union at $72,007 average pay about $6,681 higher that a private worker.

http://www.burtonsbriefs.com/2011/03/compensation-gap-by-state-for-public.html

Federal government it gets even worse. The average pay there is $81,258

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/income/2010-08-10-1Afedpay10_ST_N.htm

This shouldn't even be a question about contributing MORE. Because now you have a choice here in NJ as a public worker. Either contribute more or become one of the thousands that will lose their job this year. A job is better than NO job. No more boo hoos or who's to blame. It is what it is.

This article by Colleen O'Dea is well organized. However, Ms. O'Dea ignored some of the most relevant information from a Patch article last week http://morristown.patch.com/articles/average-morris-school-district-teacher-makes-75000./ As cited in that article teachers with 2.5 months off in the summer plus about 3 weeks of vacation during the school term and still-overly-generous benefit packages after the adjustments from the new law take effect also make a lot of money. If you look at the total package, it should not be surprising that the public is outraged because we have been paying for it. I know that if you look at police pay and benefits in the same way (as the Newark Star-Ledger recently did), you will find much high level pay and benefits on a par with the teachers except for the vacations. As Harry Truman once said, "The buck stops here." Taxpayers have been demanding overdue change, trying to limit the flow of bucks from taxpayers to state and local government to pay for all of this largesse. Legislators in Trenton have finally gotten the message loud and clear.

Why is there no such ranting against Wall Street, the mortgage lending companies, the corporate salaries, the tariff inequities between China, India and the U.S., the outrageous disparity in wealth, dummy corporations set up in 'tax havens' all over the globe, the incredible profits by companies that pay no taxes and pollute the environment.... The writer who has a small business will probably lose it since the public will no longer be able to purchase the merchandise. H.L. Mencken had it right: "You'll never go broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."

Marilyn...I own my own business. I am highly educated too. But I work on 100% commission. I have no guarantees. I started it from NOTHING! Has it suffered? My sales WERE down about 50% compared to 2008 until last year when I had to reorganize, expand my business and take on more lines. I am working TWICE as hard for the same amount of $. My sales were back up where they used to be until last month. Now I see things slipping again.

Let me put things prospective again because it appears many Americans don't understand the reality of what tax funded identities are faced with and public workers still want to cry, blame, protest, etc.

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/municipal-bond-market-crash-2011-are-dozens-of-state-and-local-governments-about-to-default-on-their-debts

The bond market for many municipalities and some states is about to crash. Investors are pulling out by the truckload. What happens when you can't finance long term debt because investors are gun shy? Two things...either interest rates on that future debt goes up or taxes go up. Taxes can't continue to go up. Not the right time or economy. So interest rates on that debt will need to pay investors a good return if they are buying risky bonds. For those cities (like Detroit) or states (like NJ, Illinois, Connecticut or NY) who can't pay the additional interest on that debt...they have to cut overhead. What happens if they can't. They eventually go bankrupt. So what do you do for a living?

I can always tell when a public worker or some member of their family is commenting. All I need to do is plug in their name at this link below. Some get it. Some don't. Quotes don't impress me either. Facts do.

http://www.nj.com/news/bythenumbers/

Randy, your facts are selective and your "anecdotal evidence" is just silly. Private sector workers have lost ground mostly because they have cowared under the Corporate threats of job loss and corporations outsourcing of jobs. They work longer and for less. They won't organize and resent those who have. This hit by the Christiecrats will do a good deal of damage to the NJ economy. You can't take up to $6000.00 from the 550,000 public employees without hurting small business all over NJ. You will see no appreciable reduction in taxes but thosands of retail and service business will see a severe reduction in customers. There will be a further reduction in State revenue and the cycle goes on. It is not some paper shifting computer punching person on Wall St that creates a strong middle class and the middleclass is what fuels the economy. Walmart may see more customers but that only increases jobs in China.

Wilbur you are soooo drinking the Kool aid of the Unions....TEACHERS in HOPATCONG, average 73K if you put the benefits package on top....22K a yr...they are making 95K ...according to Marazzano they pay 1.5% of benefits...or 1095.oo.....their dues are more than that....My private sector job I pay $4000 for my insurance from my company and EVERY YEAR it goes up-- do I complain...yes...but if I want insurance I pay it...with no raise annually either.....I am happy to be working.....There is so much waste and let me tell you the educational system in this state is what is wrong...we have way to many school districts and superintendents...regionalization is the key to cutting costs and shared services too. In Sussex we have 43 schools with approx 25 superintendents...most which preside over 1 school...average salary 150K... couldn't we combine schools districts and have 1 person overlooking several schools....??? there are ways..but people here in NJ like the status quo.....

Do you really think this is out of line with todays economic conditions? Yes or no?

The bill, A-4133, will require teachers, school employees and state and local government workers to pay an additional 1 percent of their salaries toward their pensions as of July 1, and an additional 1 percent phased in over the next seven years for a total of 7.5 percent.

Police and firefighters will pay an additional 1.5 percent of their salaries toward their pensions for a total of 10 percent, as of July 1. The bill moves the retirement age for new teachers and non-uniformed employees from 60-years-old to 65. To be eligible for early retirement, the employees now have to work 30 years instead of 25.

The bill also requires the state to make its annual payment into the pension system or unions could sue to force the state to make its payments. Gov. Christie withheld a $3 billion payment from the pension fund last year, which is underfunded by approximately $54 billion.

Automatic cost-of-living adjustment (COLA) for retired police, firefighters, teachers, state and local government employees in New Jersey's six pension systems was eliminated by the legislation until the state’s pension funds are at least 80 percent funded. Based on state estimates, that could take as long as 30 years.

as a former teacher i can say that public employees have it made, job security, no competition for jobs, comparable salaries for the time they spend actually working. i was in the permit office in my town the other day, 4 people, the one i tried to work with was the only one doing anything and she was annoyed! as far as fault, it wasnt the fault of any of the auto workers who were lost to the recession, but they paid, why should public employees be exempt?

Randy your links are very questionable and do not support your case factually. Seriously, "BurtonsBriefs and the EconomicCollapseBlog"? I think the point Ms. O'Dea makes is very important, there are conflicting analyses on Public vs Private pay scales. Personally any analysis that uses "Averages" is likely to not mean much.

I think one of the best comments on these questions so far is that money that comes out of public workers salaries for benefits comes right out of the economy and mostly goes into the pockets of health insurers. That's money your business and those of many others will never see. It's easy to get lost in the perceived quality of schools, or how hard teachers supposedly work and even the "unfairness" of public sector pay. The bottom line is these changes are not going to benefit you one bit. They aren't going to make your life any easier and are likely to make it a lot worse. I really don't see any benefit to taking money out of your customers' pockets and making public sector workers' lives tougher.

According to the Governor's speech earlier this week in Hammonton, NJ is now $121 BILLION dollars in debt (budget deficits, interest, unpaid bond issues blindly supported by voters year after year after year, unfunded pensions, cops retiring at age 45 with 2/3 salary, health care, etc). It's too late folks. A state with 8 million people (not counting the estimated 500,000 illegals) and a debt of $121,000,000,000 will never climb back out of the hole despite Christie's best efforts. The patient has stage 4 cancer. Too late, we're on life support. Decades of mindless spending have killed us. We are a failed state.

Comments like this motivate me as a taxpayer to move out of New Jersey even more. My wife had her pension ELIMINATED after 20 years of service at her company and she'll have to take her retirement in ONE lump sum. She's still working at that company. All we have now is a 401K which we contribute to and hopefully Social Security. Did she sue???? Hell no because she's in management. You do what you have to do so your company can survive during these uncertain times. You should too!

A better answer is for the state government to freeze its pension plan and let public sector workers save their own money for retirement just like the rest of us have to do.

Randy, you seem to be a very angry man. I too owned a small business and I am very aware of the hard work and long hours you must put in. For that I commend you( who know I might even be one of your customers). I am now a teacher and I say unabashedly and without apology it is one of the toughest jobs I have ever done. It is also one of the most rewarding and I don't mean financially. To know that in some small way I may be making the difference in a child's life goes beyond monetary gain. But I still have to eat and provide for my family. In Paterson a teacher with 16 years of experience a Masters Degree plus an additional 30 graduate credits makes the heady sum of $59000.00. If this is what is causing you so much pain why not put in your application. Better yet. if you have children why not tell them go to college, then get a Masters Degree plus an additional 30 credits and they too can be on "easy street" . Realize that this is gross salary and does not include the 7 1/2% contribution for pension. the $1000.00 for contributory life insurance or the $5000.00 for health insurance before additional out of pocket expenses. That leaves the GREEDY teacher roughly $47000.00 before sales state federal and property taxes. If you hate teachers and other public workers so much please let me know the name of your business so I can make sure neither they or I support you as customers. Let me know if you still want to leave I know a good private sector moving company you can use.

I work in the private sector, have a college degree, but make much less than most teachers do, as do many of my collegues. Additionally, teachers get lifetime benefits. I don't, and know very few in the private sector who do. It has gotten to the point where my property taxes are unmanageable, and I know that the overwhelming majority of my taxes go to the school system. I resent that I may have to lose my house because I have to pay so much to people who make more and have better benefits than I do. The public sector employees need to get a grip on reality. We taxpayers are not a bottomless pit. You should be ashamed of yourselves for continuing to milk people who are less fortunate than you are. You say raise taxes on the rich. Do you really expect them to stay in NJ when tax rates in neighboring states are lower than they are here? Get a grip on reality. We've all been affected by this poor economy and we should all have to make a sacrifice. Stop being primadonnas!!!

Not everyone who is a "public" employee is a cop or a teacher, nor is every public employee a member of an union. Some took jobs because they liked the sound of the position, not for the security. Some won't be putting in 25 years of service (to earn the lifelong health insurance), due to age or circumstance. Those same public, non-teacher, non-cop, non-union public employees are home and property owners, too.

Yes, I am "happy to have a job," but if you expect me to be happy that I haven't gotten a raise in many years, that I've watched long-term union and non-union co-workers experience lay-offs and reductions in hours (resulting in loss of vacation, holiday pay, and health insurance), just as those in the private sector have, you'd be wrong. I can be unhappy just like you are, can't I? Why shouldn't I be? Increasing costs of property taxes, home & auto insurance payments, gasoline, groceries - I'm effected by all of those things, too. I should add, I know any number of people in the private sector who've gotten salary increases every year, including the past 3-4 years, and many have also received their annual bonus checks.

Please don't lump all public workers together. As in all groups, there are always exceptions.

We found something we agreed upon. Yes the cuts should go across the board. It should be "shared sacrifice". Where my wife works? Why is this so important to you? Not a failed company obviously because she still works there. But if they didn't get their management and union employees to take concessions plus selling off poor performing business units they would have been out of business by now. Listen today I just happen to be in my office catching up on paperwork. It's good that we have these exchanges beause it brings to light EVERYONE'S frustration. But it's getting us no where. The decision will be up to the unions and it's membership...not me. Because I am just a small fish in a big pond. I have to sink or swim but I need to do what I have to do in order to survive. Good luck!

Wilbur,

Stop picking on and trying to bully Randy. After all, he's been helping to pay your salary and benefits for a very long time. If you keep losing people like that, you're going to find yourself digging a deeper hole.

Simply amazing. The sense of Entitlement from the Public Sector employees to the Resentment of the non-public workers. This whole debate can be summed up one way. Leave all the impassionate personal opinions behind, if the State of New Jersey was a PRIVATE Company with the same funding problems, where would it be? BANKRUPT. Can you all spell GM. This is exactly what GM did to break and/or terminate the unreasonable Employee Contracts and obligations.

The blame game needs to stop. How about some real solutions. For example, why does the cost of healthercare premiums almost double the cost for private sector companies. I have what I consider a pretty darn good policy of coverage and pay $1,250.00. I pay the whole monthly premium.

Just my two cents.

Maryanne Don't you think public employees who support your company help pay your salary. Randy and Maryanne how is it you can take so much time writing your comments and not working as hard as you profess to work maybe that's why your business is not thriving or your salary is low.

where is norma ray???

joseph,

I just happened to have today off for personal reasons, but wanted to comment since it seemed to be so one-sided. As teachers, you have the whole summer to comment here to your hearts content. I don't have that advantage since I do have to go to work tomorrow. And thank you for your contribution to my salary. However, my net pay also went down due to higher taxes and a higher contribution to my benefits, but I haven't been making a huge stink about it. All I know is that the economy is poor, my company has been affected and cannot afford to pay me more at this time. Likewise, your company, the state government, is in the same position. We have a multi-billion dollar budget shortfall in this state, so where do you think the money for your extremely generous benefits are going to come from? The majority of my real estate taxes already go to education, and in fact, NJ spends more on education & teachers' salaries than any other state in the country. I just hope that none of you teach economics, because if you do, we're really in trouble!

Ladies and gentlemen we are all going a bit astray. I am sure we are all hard working and just trying to make a living. I am proud to have the opportunity to teach for the last 28 years. I have the same enthusiasm now as I did when I first started. In addition I hope I have gained the experience and wisdom to help me reach my students a little better. What we are doing is falling into the trap of blaming and attacking each other while the chess masters make the rules. I am just as grateful to the DPW worker who comes out to plow my street at 3:00 am as I am to my family physician. We are the hard working middle class who helped make America the greatest nation on Earth. it's time to hold accountable the people who put partisan politics or personal ambitions ahead of the rest of us. I may have been a little to much tongue and cheek and I am sorry if I offended anyone. I am sure just like me and my colleagues you are decent hard working people who only want the best for yourself and your families. God Bless!

God bless you too joe. You have a lot more sense than Wilbur does. And tell him he has me mixed up with someone else, because today was my first time on Patch, so there's no way I could have said something a few days ago. And again, good thing he's not a teacher because his spelling is horrendous.

I am a public worker in NJ and feel that I am entitled to the salary and benefits I have been offered and am currently receiving. You had the option to become a public servant but you chose the private sector. That is not my fault. I proudly serve the public. Do you forget that like you we have car payments, house payments (and a vacation home to pay for). Not to count the 3 kids I have to put through Delbarton. Don't blame the public workers.

Folks -- we've removed several comments in this thread for including personal insults and attacks. Debate the issue at hand, and debate it passionately if you feel strongly. But we won't allow name-calling and insults—they don't prove anything, they don't convince anyone, and they're not why we provide this space. And we won't allow the conversation to get wildly off-topic. If that's how it goes, we'll consider closing the thread all together.

Ouch...my, how far some of the comments have strayed from the question. As a member of the real union (AFT), my voice was not heard on this issue. I would have had Christie use his tactics to confront the health care industry and fund the pensions. However, his desire to please his cronies was more important than the welfare of public employees. Had he been able to "freeze" health care costs for a set period of time as well as having the public employees pay some more toward the costs, he wouldn't have gotten quite as much flack. Keep in mind that a nunber of teachers agreed to wage freezes last year. I feel that COLAs should be given at a set # of intervals,instead of what was proposed...I will be long dead by then. Oh, and the guy that "has" to send his children to Delbarton. No, you don't...especially if you are in the Morris School District.

To Lucy - I am retiring next month at age 52 with a six figure annual lifetime pension and heath insurance. It was my proud honor to serve you and the citizens of NJ.

I have started a consuting business - yes, the state is one of my cients :) Life is Good. Be Happy :)

Just what they wanted! Bluecollars fighting w/ each other. Meanwhile the banks are raking in money and sending it off shore. Where they can afford to live. 6 figure retirements are a joke compared to the money they stole from us. Largest transfer of wealth. EVER! And we are yelling at each other. Great. The guy plowing snow in the middle of the night is not the one that ruined this economy. And the guy that has to shovel out the end of his driveway isnt to blame either. People please. We are suffering together. Dont look to your neighbor to blame. Look at the marinas along the east coast. Seems to be plenty of money there. KD

Lmao!!! Randy is having a complete meltdown and/or midlife crisis right here on the internet for all of us to see. Hang in there pal, you can doooooo it!!!

Jerry, Way to make the system work for you. Enjoy your retirement.

Good for you Randy. I'm glad your group was able to wiggle its way out of paying taxes, while the rest of us will have to pick up your slack.

I didn't say we got the reduction. We're still paying taxes too. A tax appeal court will need to decide whether we're paying our "fair share". Many homes were overvalued, the property cards were wrong, etc. You have to make the system work for you. But we had people from all walks of life appeal their taxes including retired state health workers on fixed incomes. They told me "they can't afford their homes any longer". We can still afford to pay taxes. I want them lowered so I can find some one to buy our house.

I don't understand the point of that discussion. If teachers and policemen are unhappy with the salary changes, they can always quit and spare themselves the anguish. That's what people in the private sector do. I'm sure they'll find better jobs immediately. Won't they?

Max, if the state is broke they can layoff employees and/or change benefits for new hires. Illegally taking away benefits from current members and retirees (who have plenty of taxes and other bills just like everyone else) that were achieved through contract negotiations with the State is not the answer. It will only serve to cost the State even more money in a long line of lawsuits.

I am on the road. I just tweeted this one. NJ must be worried about a mass exodus from the state. They're hitting every homeowner that sells their property with a real estate transfer fee. In my case if I get what I paid for my house it will cost us $5,830 at closing. That should help pay down the debt.

http://njretoday.com/2009/09/how-to-calculate-the-nj-real-estate-transfer-tax/

NJ is broke. The party is over. the endless 4-5 percent raises and free benfits ship has sailed. People in this state in the private sector are losing jobs and homes; we have to listen to the crybaby teachers. You're lucky you have jobs. You pay next to noting for benefits. Try paying $900 a month out of your paycheck for health insurance for a family of three like we do. WHen i ran that by a teacher they almost passed out. ANd as a parent of an NJ school age kid, I'm not really impressed with what we get for all this money.

This is an old argument but you work 180 daya a year. Sorry. Who gets all that time off in corporate America. no one. And in that time off you can add to your income with another PT job if you can't make it on whatever the State pays you. Gov Christie is my hero, NJEA should just shut up. "It's all about the kids" Yeah sure. It's all about the teachers. NJEA is Putting up horrible bllboards about our Gov on the turnpike calling him a millionare indicating he's in bed with millionares. Millionares make and create jobs. DUH!!! Wake up. Christie and and his wife earned their money. Gov. Corzine wasn't poor either folks! He got us into much of this mess our current gov has to clean up.

Diane you said it the party is over. Alot of big cities have changed health benefits and retirement because the states are going broke. I am right there with you on insurance. I pay 700 dollars a month and it isnt great insurance either . There are so many things they refuse to pay for . some medicines cost me over 200 a month out of my pocket.Lets add in orthodontics. who the hell gets great dental if any. Public sector gets it all. They fail to remember the rest of us pay for it.

real

It is unfair for private sector taxpayers to pay the full burden of thier own medical covarage and THEN pay extra taxes to suppliment private workers reduced cost medical coverage. If you want medical insurance you should pay what everyone else pays.

Also how is it that we can compare yearly salaries between teachers and provate sector workers without pro rating? No one in the private sector gets 15 weeks vacation, at least not in this country.

Hey Diane, Millionaires have been shipping jobs overseas for years now. Duh!! Wake up now. The Bush tax cuts and individual state tax cuts have done virtually nothing for the job market. DUH!! Most here agree that pension reforms need to be made but there is a illegal and legal way to do it, and time and time again Gov CC has chosen the illegal way costing the state even more debt. This will be no different. I also feel bad for any adult who calls some one term Gov their "Hero", pretty sad.

You can agree and disagree all you want. Put your money where your mouth is. Get yourself a good tax attorney, an appraiser, form a group like I did and appeal your taxes. Send your municipality, county and state a message that "you aren't going to take it anymore". After enough taxpayers appeal and get reductions all that will be left will be the public workers to pay the bigger % of them. I will then feel better about their entitlements. Raise the rateables? They will continue to pay the higher taxes.

Below is a breakdown, by year for Morris Co of the appeals filed, the number settled or led to reduced property valuations. It also indicates the change in assessed property values as a result of the appeals.

Number of Appeals Filed (1st number) Residential Appeals Filed (2nd number) Assessments Revised or Appeals Settled (3rd number) Net Change in Valuation (4th number). I just got $2,000/yr cut today.

2008 MORRIS 2,039 739 952 ($65,363,000.00)
2009 MORRIS 2,986 1,992 1,519 ($132,152,232.00)
2010 MORRIS 3,190 2,350 1,517 ($126,287,235.00)

In 2010, the number of tax appeals filed in New Jersey reached the highest level since the early 1990s.

Looks like you Morris taxpayers fell behind last year vs 2009. Hopefully 2011 will be a record year.

In regards to whether or not Christie's reforms are legal or not....that's up to a court to decide. But I can tell you this....all eyes are on Wisconsin and it's not looking good for public workers.

Randy, you obviously know nothing about the Wisconsin situation. Its not looking good for republicans, quite a few of them are facing recall which means they will lose the majority and thus the anti union battle along with it. Gov Walker himself is most likely facing a recall and might be tossed out of office. This is why it needs to be done the legal way. I know its hard for you but please think and do a little bit of research before you type away about things that you have close to zero knowledge on. Keep up the good work on evading taxes that you think your not entitled to pay.

My apologies....I missed that about the recall. Looks like the Republicans were playing dirty tricks.

http://www.politicususa.com/en/dead-people-dirty-tricks-wisconsin-gop

I am a registered Democrat. I did NOT vote for Christie. But I am tired of paying the amount of taxes I do and getting very little service from it. My road has been paved ONCE in 30 years. Full of pot holes.

As far as me evading taxes. Evading taxes is illegal. Everything my group and I did was totally legal.

I think it was you that said, "make the system work for you". Right? We made the system work for us.

BTW corresponding w/you is insulting and I find it hard to do w/o it being adversarial. I am done now!

I'm glad we can agree on something. It seems like Gov CC is following Gov Walker's lead. This will only lead to endless lawsuits and other nonsense which will deepen the states debt. Like I said there are many legal ways to reform pensions and this is probably not one of them. I agree with you about the roads (Rosedale is a disaster), but is this really the fault of the every day municipal worker?? I'm sure if they were tasked with repaving the roads it would get done.

I appreciate the civility of this discussion, it's unusual on the internet. I would like to bring up one point, what about revenue? Any business owner will tell you it's impossible to "save" a business into profitability. Without a steady stream of income business quickly fades. In fact most businesses are built to grow incrementally. Very few are designed to stay stable. My problem with Mr. Christie is that it's all cuts and no revenue. That's just not going to work. Find more money Governor, cuts aren't enough. Let's leave aside the fact that "bulling" your way through those cuts de-incents valuable public workers and at the end of the day they are giving up their daily pay without substantial progress against the deficit.

I'm a Republican, I didn't vote for him, and I wont next time either. Being Governor is a hard job, but it doesn't have to be done like a brute. He doesn't have the experience to govern a complex state like NJ, and it shows.

P.S. Don't announce your leaving the state if you want anyone to listen to your opinion on state issues.

Chris Christie was, is, and will remain a prosecutor at heart, not a businessman. He doesn't have the gift to create business, like Rick Perry in Texas. But when he sees wrong - in this case, the fiscal rape that public unions subject the state to - he will work diligently to fix it. He'll strike shady deals, ignore social concerns, and bend the rules. That's what prosecutors do. I believe that it's exactly what New Jersey needs right now, but it is your right to like or dislike him. Just remember that the alternative will be another McGreevy or - Heaven forbid - another Corzine.

Max, Gov CC breaks the rules. He made an illegal budget, tried to get out of the rail project and now owes the feds 300mil, and completely screwed up what would have been 500 mil in education. Some of the benefits he is looking to take away were gained though collective bargaining, which would be a breach of contract therefore making it an illegal act. There are plenty of legal ways to reform pensions, the Gov should use them. He does not pay attention to detail and it has cost the state over a billion dollars.

As for the 2nd amendment, what does that have to do with providing police services?? Do you think carrying guns would curtail crime?? I'm all for the right to own and carry weapons but it does nothing to stop crime, in fact people who have weapons in their home are more likely to be killed during home invasions. Criminals carry guns to and are much more likely to use them.

I find it funny that many on this who dislike Christie seem to think that staying the status quo would make this state solvent?...Its broke as are it's people...to think that asking a union/public employee to pay more in benefits and pension is such a bad thing...Police are losing COLA...cost of living on pensions...sorry but all tax paying working adults who have put into Social Security aren't getting it and haven't since 2008.....???? is that fair?...NO...but where's the out cry on that....Millions have been taken by our government and we haven't filed lawsuits.....and for a lot of people thats all they have...
If the state can't afford the increases then it can't give it....We are raising a lazy, give me society where the slogan is now what can my country give me, than what can I do for my country!!!!..and tough choices have to be made....and at least benefit/pension reform is a start...

Maxy, your lack of knowledge is hilarious. You failed to mention that you had no idea (as usual) that the budget was deemed illegal. LMAO @ you. Maxy is getting very upset. Maybe I should be worried since it sounds like Maxy has an arsenal of weapons. GUNS are the answer according to Maxy. I have throughly enjoyed this nonsensical conversation with you, but this time I'm really done. Enjoy your target practice!!

First of all, it's not what one makes in comparison to another, it's what the market can bear. Where is the free market of using tax payer's money to elect your own boss who will return the favor with patronage?

Next, "Taxpayers are jealous" implies that we are not the ones paying the bills. "Tax payers are angry" more correctly sums up the situation. We're not asking public workers to pay more, just the same as the rest of us working stiffs who don't have a 1000 pound gorilla in Trenton robbing the tax payer blind for our personal benefit.

Lastly, I wish the apologists would stop trying to compare the running of government to the running of a corporation. The two are as dissimilar as apple pie and cow manure.

People! We are all on the same team! We all contribute to each other's economy. We all pay taxes. We all need to feed families. On the opposite side of us are the politicians and power brokers. George Norcross has cost you more than any teacher or town hall clerk ever will. The graft and corruption that cost the School Construction Company to run out of money without building schools is not the fault of any CWA worker or any private sector average citizen. We are both victims of the politicians who robbed a fully functioning pension system. Not only am I referring to the 16 years they put nothing in. I am referring to the money they TOOK OUT and never replaced. There should be NO legislator with more than 6 years seniority. They all betrayed all of us. Vote them all out.
And be kinder to each other. There can be no private sector workers without educated citizens and there can be no teachers' pay without private sector taxpayers. We are in this together.

Just for the record, Gov CC does not get a pension.

Wilbur since most of what you rant makes no sense, I bet you work for the Union....because all you do is name call....The state is broke and tough choices need to be made....I'm glad CC is standing up for the rest of us.

I was just travelling on business out of state. My client had a new member join the team recently and I was suprised to learn he had relocated from Westfield NJ. We got to talking and I learned that his wife, age 42, just retired as a teacher and was in the process of driving out to their new home. You see she stayed in NJ for a few months so she could get her 20 years in before she retired. Guess who is paying for this 5 person family's health insurance - we (NJ residents) are. My client works for a Fortune 50 company in a different state with great benefits, but they chose to take the retired NJ teacher's benefits because "they are so much better" (his words). Just think, she is only 42 with a husband and three children under the age of 11, how much will this cost us - $500,000, $1,0000,000, or (probably) more? When people complain about how little we pay educators, please rember to factor in the cost of benefits like this and then maybe we can actually communicate as opposed to talking over each other.

Thats what happens to people like Wilbur who have nothing left to add rationally. They lash out because they're beat and it's all over but the crying.

Hey Randy (aka Roll Back our taxes), I was talking to a senior in town today and he told me that Gov CC had significantly cut the Homestead tax benefit for senior/disabled people. Which according to him was made to ease the tax burden for seniors who have been paying NJ taxes for decades. In 2009 he received a tax break of $1500, after Gov CC changed it he got $0 back and 2010 and after another adjustment probably around $300 in 2011. If this is part of the reason your fighting I can greatly understand. Gov CC loves screwing teachers, seniors, and the disabled. He should fit in great once he leaves this state for Washington.

The power and influence that public sector unions can exert at the bargaining table is quite formidable while the taxpayers have to rely solely on their elected officials, primarily the governor, to represent them. However, for too many years, the representatives of the taxpayers have been influenced by a conflict of interest because the unions they are negotiating with provide millions in campaign contributions and thousands of campaigners as a reward to those elected officials who support the union agenda while actively opposing those who do not. Witness the comment of ex-governor Jon Corzine, while campaigning for reelection in 2009, in front of a CWA union rally in Trenton that "I am on your side". Such words speak for themselves. Governor Christie has chosen to be on the side of the taxpayers’ and is paying the price for doing so, including being called among other things a Nazi. Well I hope CWA District 1 Vice President Christopher Shelton, the union official who made those statements, is better at his union job than he is a student of history because one of the most famous political leaders in our history was a staunch opponent of public sector unions. That leader was Franklin D Roosevelt, hardly a right wing, anti union zealot. If Christie is a Nazi then so was Roosevelt. Going forward, we need to make sure the negotiation process is not tilted in either sides favor in order that fair and balanced agreements can be reached.

It is called shared sacrafice.

FYI I do not have tattoos and a 4yr degree but what does that have to do with anything other than you love to incite people by demeaning them? You seem to be the one lacking in an any form of education . You also lack tolerance for anyone other than ones who share your views, as you resort to name calling and belittling. I guess you think it makes you a big man, it doesn't. It makes you small, narrow-minded and about as close to a racist as I have seen.

Patrick, my comments involving FDR were limited only to the fact that the concerns of CC or Governor Walker relative to the power of public sector unions are not unique to the Republican or conservative movements but were shared by an icon of the liberal left of the Democrat Party and therefore any attacks by individuals on people have issues with the power of public sector unions should be accurate and not one sided. The fact that FDR would never even have allowed public sector unions to exist in the first place never seems to come up when the Republicans and conservatives are attacked as being anti public union and this seems intellectually dishonest. This is the single point I was trying to make and nowhere did I make any effort to draw a comparison of CC's career to FDR's. If simply pointing out missing historical comparisons and facts on specific issues between current and past politicians is idiotic, then I guess I am guilty.

Okay, no problem.

RMcD - Mr. Catalanello's provided an update, but the Patch isn't properly posting updates under the original story, including yours.

Oh, and since you are running for council, what's your position on Madison's employees paying more for their benefits?

Madisonians would love to know.

Apparently this thread is having technical difficulties, maybe the discussion should be continued in another area.

To be clear, I made an error in my first post. I misspoke yesterday when I said my client’s wife had retired as a teacher. She has not. I was confused when he said she was driving out to their new home so I (and my colleague) assumed that she was moving out for good but in fact it turns out she is just going for the summer. Everything else I wrote is accurate and the family is most certainly on her insurance plan, not his fortune 50 company’s plan. The point is that in order to have a rational, productive discussion about educator remuneration we must include some monetary equivalent/measure of the benefit packages they receive in NJ as they have significant value. Once we come to some sort of an agreement on the value of these benefit packages it becomes possible to have a constructive argument, as opposed to the mere gainsaying of the opposing viewpoint, in an effort to reach a compromise solution.

I think we often ignore that union members are taxpayers as well, even public union members. They have a lobby in Trenton, good for them, they pay for it. It's very expensive to belong to a union, so members expect quite a bit for their membership. In the past it's made a big difference in their lives, and probably will again soon.

The way I see it the only difference between Union lobbies and corporate lobbies is who they represent. For the unions it's their member workers, for corporations it's the management and stockholders.

Yeah we know you either made a error or made up the story. So what is the point of this short story anyway?? You know someone who is married to a teacher, who has good medical coverage. What is her yearly salary? What diplomas and credentials does she have? Do you think she is not entitled to good medical coverage in addition to her salary? You don't know nearly enough about her contract to even have a logical opinion on it. The point here is in order to have a rational, productive discussion we must bring facts to the discussion. Not stories or third party information.

Patrick, your comment is spot-on. I hope that guy isn't an ambulance chaser because if he is, it doesn't reflect well on his profession.

Mr. Catalanello is not an ambulance chaser, I assure you. This stream has people from all towns who have strong opinions either for or against teacher and their unions. When anybody accepts a job, they consider the entire package, not just salary, but bonuses and healthcare. I happen to be fortunate enough to be a stay at home mom who has dedicated a great deal of time to volunteering in schools and my church. But my husband has not received a raise in 3 years and the health care package is not great, but is certainly better than average. However my husband receives yearly bonuses and stock options that teachers and public service workers don't receive. It's all about choices that we make and given that this weekend we celebrate our freedom to make choices, we shouldn't be demoralizing anyone who decides to dedicate themselves to the profession of serving others, whether it is a teacher or municipal worker or anyone who works in the private sector paying taxes. We all serve a purpose and we should recognize that much.

At least Mr. Catalanello as a public figure has posted his name along with his opinion. I don't take away anybody's right to remain anonymous but it is certainly a lot easier to post remarks when your name is not attached. I'm thankful we can all say what is on our minds, but wish we could be a bit kinder to each other as we voice our opinions.

Well said Karin. Its a very touchy so being kind becomes difficult. I wouldn't worry about anonymous posters too much. Remember "you can't stop the internet".

People there is way to much anger here.

The big question is what are the various cities, counties & states going to do now that they need to bring spending inline with costs.

For Texas this has meant they just had to cut $4 Billion from public school funding over the next two years. That means doing more with less teachers, buildings, etc.

For Morris county and New Jersey it just comes down to the simple choice do you layoff 1/2 of all teachers, police officers, firemen, and all other goverment workers or will retirement benefits be changed.

Teachers and all others with generous packages my take the stance that these benefits were negotiated and are due them but the worse case result could be that all packages are cancelled and they find themselves with nothing as they approach retirement.

What is will hopefully happen is that all pensions will be converted to 401ks with a generous match and health care components will not exceed the level of contribution those in private industry are required.

I could start with disbanding the rat nest that is Dept of Ed. That alone would save a couple of hundred mils, as well as guarantee that our children get EDUCATION instead of costly daycare spiced up with political hogwash. Next, give the unelected legislators-in-robes a hefty boot up their behind. That will stop Abbott waste, another cool bil every year. Then allow private schools to open, total all the tax money (both local and state) spent on schools, divide it by the number of students, and hand each of them a voucher. For the underprivilged kids in Newark, that'll open the whole new world of opporunity. And guess who's against it - yeah, UNION.

After 123 comments, please shut this down. Everyone has made their point. Enough.

Why do small business owners who typically get shafted by larger businesses, always seem to support policies that favor large businesses? Small business cry for tax cuts to create jobs. Yet it's the large businesses, typically public companies who; are paying little taxes thanks to loop holes, run a business w/ a majority focus on quarterly results leading to bogus accounting practices. Small businesses should be clamoring for a level playing field and equitable taxing, not just blanket cuts. Small business should take a page out of the union play book. Unions were organized to counter corporate greed and give the little guy a voice. Agreed, in many cases they have gone too far and caused expensive inefficiencies in some arenas, but they gave the little guy the ability bargain.

Report cards are in and here's the scores..

Here's the site for the municipalities that are ABOVE the 2% property tax cap

http://php.app.com/proptaxes11/results.php?COUNTY=%25&MUNICIPALITY=%25&cap=Above&Submit2=Search

and BELOW the 2% property tax cap

http://php.app.com/proptaxes11/results.php?COUNTY=%25&MUNICIPALITY=%25&cap=Below&Submit2=Search

BTW...here's the link for the school system salaries. I am not trying to get on the teachers but I'd say "educators" as a whole are well paid starting at $275,000.

http://php.app.com/edstaff/results2.php?county=%25&district=%25&school=%25&lname=&fname=&job1=%25&tfm_order=DESC&tfm_orderby=SALARY

Pension funds aren't too bad either...

http://php.app.com/NJpublicemployees11/results.php?lastn=&firstn=&location=%25&countyname=%25&fundname=Teachers+Pension+and+Annuity+Fund&tfm_order=DESC&tfm_orderby=locsal

If you want to see what an agency, town or pensioner makes go to this site.

http://www.app.com/datauniverse/

Here's the reality of some situations. Over 3,856 public workers in NJ making over $100,000 per year with the first one holding (8) positions with a salary of about $320,000. Building nice pension funds. BTW...this is dated 2008.
.
http://php.app.com/NJpublicemployees/results2.php?Submit3=here

Glad 2011 will be over soon. Will 2012 be any better? Probably not. A look at things to come with Greece leading the way. See what happens when austerity plans have to be implemented because a country is too deep in debt to pay their public employees and they take it out on the private sector workers still employed. .

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8786547/The-Greek-tragedy-no-money-no-hope.html

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/financial-panic-sweeps-europe-as-the-head-of-the-imf-warns-of-a-1930s-depression

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/the-number-one-catastrophic-event-that-americans-worry-about-economic-collapse